Guest Alicia Asin, CEO of IoT specialists Libellium, asks “Is it really necessary to expose our privacy to control pandemics?” Privacy Purists are in the spotlight as Jeremy Cowan and George Malim ask Alicia how enterprises should balance free services and access to our data.
And, Sun of a Beach: We see how IoT can help you in Spain this summer; we anticipate the UK’s Huawei decision, and see how we can all avoid COVID Cliches.
Transcript:
Jeremy Cowan
Hi, and welcome to the latest Tech Trends podcast brought to you by IoT Now, VanillaPlus, and The Evolving Enterprise. I’m Jeremy Cowan. And it’s great to have you here for today’s sometimes serious, sometimes light-hearted look at digital transformation for enterprises. In a moment, our guests will share the tech news that interested them. Then our second guest promises to tell us what’s wrong with privacy purists, she’s already written about them blocking the end of lockdown. And as we begin to emerge from this, I want to know what role technology can play in returning us all to some sense of normality. And finally, in What The Tech we’ll share what’s made each of us smile lately, or maybe it just made us beat our heads on the desk. So let me introduce two people whose expert opinions will make any lockdown seem shorter. The first is George Malim, managing editor of IoT Now magazine. George, welcome.
George Malim
Hello, everyone. Very pleased to be here to
join the discussion today.
Jeremy Cowan
It’s great to have you here. And our second
guest is Alicia Asin the CEO of Libelium. Now, Libelium is a Spanish company
designing and manufacturing hardware and APIs for wireless sensor networks in
the Internet of Things, Machine to Machine communications and smart city
solutions. Alicia, a warm welcome to you too.
Alicia Asin
Hi. Pleased to be here with you.
Jeremy Cowan
Did I get it roughly right with that
description of Libelium?
Alicia Asin
Well, in fact, that’s what we’ve been in
the past. Now we are trying to evolve to a more general angle and we consider
ourselves a company trying to make the IoT possible from no matter if it means
hardware or software or whatever. So, trying to be broader than that.
Jeremy Cowan
I see. Good. Well, thank you for correcting
me on that. Okay, let’s start with the headlines. George, what have you spotted
in the news?
George Malim
Jeremy, I’m looking at the role of Huawei
in the UK, which has been running on for endless months. And looks like it
might be getting close to an ending to the for the weekend. And, in fact over
the weekend as well. There’s been stories coming out in the in the national
press, that decision time will happen this month. And it’s looking like Huawei
won’t be allowed to sell its 5G equipment to UK operators. Of course, we’re
suffering with this story because the mainstream media doesn’t really
understand the telecoms industry and speaks about the UK 5G network like it’s a
singular thing. And like the government owns it and invests in it, when in
fact, it’s multiple networks owned by different network operators who will make
their own decisions. So really, it’s not a case of the government banning
Huawei from a UK national network. It’s a case of the UK Government taking one
choice of vendor away from international commercial organisations. So that’s
probably highly negative in terms of getting 5G coverage to all of the UK
because, I think it’s quite well acknowledged, Huawei is well ahead in terms of
its 5G gear, so the UK operators not being allowed to specify Huawei 5G
equipment and in fact, potentially having to remove 3G and 4G equipment over
the next decade is a very unwelcome additional expense and could actually slow
down adoption of 5G.
There’s a further problem here of course,
without getting too political about the situation; this is being done in the
name of Security when I don’t really buy into this argument that Huawei is 5G
equipment is any weaker than anyone else’s. Most of this equipment is built in
Chinese factories regardless of who that vendor is. Most of it is hackable, if
you have the will. So, I don’t fully understand the reasoning behind this apart
from obviously, there’s a lot of political muscle being put behind blocking
Huawei in the US. And the UK is obviously part of the Five Eyes Security
Alliance with Australia, New Zealand and Canada, as well. And these are all
negative to Huawei. So, I think for the UK to remain in that Five Eyes Security
Alliance, having Huawei gear in the network will be a problem, but it’s a long-running
saga. It seems not fully justifiable to me, but I think the sensationalist
reporting in the mainstream press doesn’t fully understand the issues.
Jeremy Cowan
Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. It
clearly is part of a balance of power play as much as anything to do with
security because the case is constantly being made regarding security without
always a great deal of evidence. Alicia, is there anything that caught your eye
on that?
Alicia Asin
Well, as a future user of the network of 5G,
I consider this from a different angle. I think that we are seeing like a
football match or a tennis match in technology terms are very, very complicated
and what I think it’s that it’s really the story of geopolitics, balance of
force with it’s really behind that. And I think that using all them technical
systems in the discussions, it’s just a way to lure the news to the rest of the
consumer so that we finally don’t understand anything. That’s my view.
Jeremy Cowan
Yeah, and I think a lot of commentary
that’s been made in the national media, as George has already pointed out has
been somewhat ill-informed. But that is not news to anyone who understands
telecoms and communications generally. Alicia, what story attracted your
attention?
Alicia Asin
I’ve been amazed by a recent story on the beaches
of Sanxenxo in the northwest of Spain recently, they want to install social
distancing on the beaches. So they’ve created nine square meter spaces in the
beach, where you will go and in a very, very tight way, you will be only in
one. So, the landscape of the of the beach has totally changed. And you define
those spaces with sticks and ropes in the sand. And the downside of that is
that, yes, it’s a way to ensure social distancing. I’m not sure how Spanish
people will accept that. We are not very good at accepting those things,
especially if we are in the beach. But the bad thing is that they say you cannot
book in advance. So I thought that it’s a perfect example where technology
could improve a lot, the use of that measure, and without being so inconvenient
for the users. If you could book one of those spaces from your hotel or your
apartment, you would make sure that you go there and you will not need to make
a queue till someone is leaving for the bar or wherever. So, I think that’s a
good example that we should try to embrace technology in all the new security
measures we are taking in the post-COVID era.
Jeremy Cowan
Yeah, it’s a great example of how actually
IoT can play a really constructive role. I think that’s interesting.
The thing that I’ve noticed, is more of a
digital transformation story, I guess, rather than comms or IoT. It’s a piece
on our website on The Evolving Enterprise (www.TheEE.ai)
, and it’s headlined, “Boomers and Generation X doubled Bitcoin investments
every month since lockdown”. And according to data from analysts at Mode Banking,
investments in Bitcoin or BTC, as it’s often known, have been doubling every
month since February among older age groups. I think they mean, baby boomers
like me and Generation X people born from 1965 to 1980. But Mode says it
signals wider adoption of crypto currencies. Apparently, they first saw an
uptick in BTC investments in March, just as global markets crashed and many
countries went into lockdown. And they say that as the pandemic spread, boomers
and Gen X investors increased their exposure to Bitcoin on Mode’s platform, the
thing that caught my attention was that it wasn’t really by a small amount
either. Both groups invested over two times more in Bitcoin in March than they
did in February, and four and a half times more in April and a staggering 8.8
times more in May. So, Mode Banking concludes that Bitcoin is becoming popular
among all age groups and being endorsed by more mainstream investors every
week. I have to say I’m personally still cautious, but I’m not surprised that
people are buying into cryptocurrencies at this time, and it’s no coincidence
that it’s happening now. George, do you consider investing in cryptocurrencies
or is it an area that you think is too fraught with risk?
George Malim
Yeah, I’m afraid I say it that way. I’m a
bit of a cave dweller and I always assume when it comes to investment that if
I’ve heard about it I’ve already missed the boat! And I think that with things
like the failure of Wirecard, which I appreciate is not a cryptocurrency and
that’s just your standard traditional fraud, the idea of having my money in
something that it’s not clear how I would get it out of is very challenging.
And I think that may prove to be a challenge to this demographic that’s piled
into Bitcoin. When they try and move that out into bank accounts they’ll come
up against anti-money laundering regulations and things like that and it may
not be quite as liquid as everyone hoped.
Jeremy Cowan
Alicia, do you take a different view on
Bitcoin. Is this your thought as well?
Alicia Asin
I’m not an expert on stocks and I don’t
have any cryptocurrencies yet. But I think it’s very, very relevant to outline
that those generations are doubling their investments in cryptocurrencies. And
I think that’s the result of an increasing lack of trust in the whole system.
And I think that’s what is behind that. Cryptocurrencies rely on blockchain
technology, which means more transparency, in a very essential definition it means
more transparency. And I think that’s what the population is demanding at all
levels. And we’ve seen this in pandemics in all the aspects, from the way that
you were counting people infected and thereby the coronavirus, to the
economical system that many people are doubting about its permanence in the
future. So, I think it’s the maximum exponent of uncertain times and it
reflects that.
Jeremy Cowan
Yeah. I do agree with you. I think it’s a
significant reflection of people’s attitudes at the current time. Anyway, if
anybody wants to know more about that story, they can find it at TheEE.ai. Just
search for the word “boomers”. Now, Alicia, the reason I most wanted
to talk to you was following an article that you did for us about data privacy.
There’s always lots of business talk about security, privacy seems to get a lot
less coverage. And obviously, given COVID-19 is a big issue everywhere and all
countries have to decide how much privacy to give up in order to track and
trace our movements, it seemed a great moment for us to have a chat about it
and thanks very much for joining us. The first question that I had for you is
quite a broad one. Is it a fantasy that liberal democracies can control
pandemics and at the same time still protect our privacy?
Alicia Asin
Well, I think that we should make the
question in the other way. Is it necessary to expose our privacy to control
pandemics really? So, I would ask the question in that way, because the control
of the pandemic which is a major force event, cannot be the excuse to lose lots
of rights of privacy. However, we can neither be purist in privacy to avoid the
reopening of the economy. And I’ll give you two examples. On the one hand, we’ve
seen many governments promoting tracing apps that control your location and
need also your cooperation by introducing the symptoms you may have to detect
them, to detect if you’ve been exposed to the pandemic, and how many people
have been infected.
In Singapore, one of the countries that was
one of the earlier adopters of this technology, they would require like 60% of
people downloading and co-operating with this kind of applications. And they
reached less than 20% because it’s too much, giving away your location and your
contacts, and when you have no trust in who is owning and surveilling the data.
I think the problem with that was we haven’t been clear enough, companies and
governments haven’t been clear enough with citizens about what kind of data, and
how long they’ll be storing the data.
On the other hand, at Libelium we have
designed a fever screener detector that detects on-site without identifying the
person if that individual has a fever or not. Many reactions, and even by part
of the data protection Spanish agency, have been that it could mean a violation
of privacy because you are monitoring the temperature of someone in front of
other people, and what if that person is above 37.5? Everyone will know and I
think that’s a lot of hypocrisy. If you have systems that are not collecting
any data that can be used to protect and prevent the spread of the pandemics
and you are criticising them because of the invasion of privacy that they mean
and on the other hand, Most governments are promoting those tracing apps
systems that are way more invasive in privacy. So, we think that we as citizens
need to demand that we want to control the pandemics but we are not giving away
all our privacy for that.
George Malim
Great. Alicia enterprises that collect data
could make it much easier for consumers to set their own limits on how that
data is used. Do you think they should allow consumers to have more control?
Alicia Asin
Yeah, they should give more information and
that would be sufficient. When I think that we’ve already passed the concept of
understanding that if the product is for free, you are the product and
people already understand that if they are using Facebook or Google services,
they are giving their data in exchange. But the problem is what happens with a
smart TV, for example. When I ask people, why do you think smart TVs are so
cheap? Why do you think that you can find for less than €700 a 60-inch flat
screen smart TV? And they say, ‘Well, that’s because they are a big company,
they can optimise the production costs’. No, that’s not the answer. The answer
is that they are also collecting data and using that. And many people react,
saying that they are really, really surprised about that. Not that smart TV
manufacturers are not providing a privacy policy included with the TV. It’s
that we are not used to reading those kind of documents. We are not used to
expect that an appliance or a TV may be collecting data. So, I saw an initiative
a couple of weeks ago by Salat promoting something like a nutrition label but
regarding security and privacy in devices. I think that’s a wonderful idea. So
imagine that all the electronic devices you have would contain a standardised
label, explaining to you very well about the kind of data that you’re
collecting. And if that’s in, in the sense of noise, location, video, how long
are they storing that, and for which purposes? And I think it would be much
easier for the average citizen to understand what’s he giving away? And if that
person agrees or not with a trade?
Jeremy Cowan
You’re right, and it’s not just Smart TV
makers that are gathering data with social media like Facebook making billions
of dollars from our data. Do you think that the new push back by advertisers,
which seems to be led by angry consumers, is going to enable us to set
acceptable limits on data uses? Because, let’s face it, governments are pretty
slow to react.
Alicia Asin
Yes, governments are always too slow. And
there is an increasing gap between technology advance and regulations, as
technology is evolving in an exponential way. The good news is that consumers are
becoming more aware of privacy, in a sense that privacy really matters, and they are willing to understand what are the data
being used for, and how much are you making from me. Because there is a total
misalignment in the values of the services that we are exchanging. I’m using
Facebook or social media, and I can put a price to that, even though I’m using
that for free. Then I would love to know how much are they making in exchange
somehow. What’s the value they are receiving from me? And then maybe we would
consider that we would prefer to pay for the services and say, ‘Well, I pay for
a subscription for your service, but you stop collecting data and making money
from me’ because it’s not only about money, it’s about collecting data that can
be used to manipulate us in the in the future. And we’ve seen it’s,it’s
already happened. We saw that during the Brexit campaign, and with all the
scandal of Cambridge Analytica, so that’s really scary.
George Malim
Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting, isn’t it, that
we seem to be sort of searching for a balance. I mean, obviously, it’s not in
anyone’s interest to stifle creative new services that we might enjoy. And we
need to encourage new enterprise services in the future, but the challenge
seems to be how to find the right balance. Alicia, do you have any sort of
insight into how the right balance can be identified?
Alicia Asin
Well, I think that’s a really tough
question. And I’m afraid I don’t have a single answer. But I think that
initiatives like the one I was mentioning of promoting a nutritional label for
privacy and security issues in, in technology, electronics devices would be an
advance. In general, we need two things. We need more transparency at all
levels. And we also need more digital education. Because many times we are
introducing new disruptive technologies and new disruptive services that are
often targeted to be understood only for a very small portion of the consumers.
Maybe millennials understand perfectly that Netflix is collecting data to adapt
and even produce future TV programmes, and to suggest them what they are
watching. But my question is do all the users of those services are aware of
that? Should they be more transparent to make sure that anyone is understanding
the game rules, because in this debate of not leaving anyone behind in the
technology race, I think the beginning starts by making sure that everyone is
playing with the same rules.
Jeremy Cowan
Yeah. Thanks, Alicia. There’s a lot to think about there and I’m sure it’s
a subject we’re going to come back to. I guess people can find out more about
your work if they want to know more at libelium.com
Alicia Asin
Yes, absolutely. And they will find all the
new services we are creating for the IoT and specially in the in the post-COVID
era.
Jeremy Cowan
Well, I’d recommend everyone having a look
at that because I for one was amazed by the range of services that you now
offer or enable.
I guess, we’ve come to the time where we
can have a little bit of light relief from the serious matters of digital
transformation for all enterprises. It’s what we call What The Tech
where we share something tech-based that either made us smile or perhaps just
made us mad. George, last time you had us shaking our heads in disbelief. How
are you now?
George Malim
Well, I’m now basically, I’m afraid it’s a
retelling of somebody else’s joke really, that happened to me in real life in the
last few weeks. So, this is originally a joke by the British humourist, Charlie
Brooker, and it’s about how we are all increasingly communicating via video
conferencing, it doesn’t matter if it’s Teams or Zoom or whatever. And the
classic question, that’s a routine interview staple for journalists for many
years, which is, what’s your background? And traditionally, you would expect
the answer, ‘Well, I’ve got a first class degree in electronics engineering
from MIT’ or something like that or ‘I’ve worked in IoT for the last 25 years’.
But increasingly now when you ask the question, ‘What’s your background?’ you
get, ‘That’s a Gibson Les Paul studio guitar in Anaconda Burst as played by
Eric Clapton that you can see hanging on my wall behind me.’ So, you want to be
a bit cautious when you ask people about their backgrounds, because you won’t
necessarily get their career history any more. You’ll get a bit of artistic
critique.
Jeremy Cowan
Could be anything, couldn’t it? Alicia,
what have you spotted?
Alicia Asin
I recently read a story that happened in
early March. A man hacked Google Maps by introducing a traffic jam where there
was no cars passing by. And he did it by hacking the source code of Google Maps
by just introducing 99 smartphones in a stroller and just walking down the
streets. It was hacking in a non-technological way. And I think it’s
interesting to keep this kind of stories in mind to understand that when we
think about the potential dangers and potential hazards of technology leaks.
Well, you always have unexpected ones as well.
Jeremy Cowan
We all talk about disruption in technology,
that’s a nice one. I want to give a big round of applause to a guy called
Hamish Thompson, who’s doing great things in my area of work, namely technology
journalism. Hamish has built a website called thebuzzsaw.co.uk and you may want to
check it out because it’s useful in a number of walks of life. He’s been
successfully removing, let’s just call it the BS from tweets, posts, and press
releases, speeches since 2010. I’m talking about cliché phrases like ‘reaching
out’, or ‘circling back’, or ‘ideation’ – which is still mainly a US one, thank
goodness – and ‘going forward’. There
are of course, new clichés too which Hamish is having to work with. Hamish
really hates, “in the time of COVID”, as he says, Gabriel Garcia Marquez it
ain’t. Or how about the ‘new normal’? The buzzsaw says it gets hundreds of
emails a week using this and so do George and I. Hamish could have simply made
a list of annoying words and phrases and then just told people to stop. But he
didn’t. I like the fact that he’s created a free tool. I’m definitely not going
to call it a ‘solution’. You see, the buzzsaw is also free editing tool. It
automatically scrubs out annoying words, phrases and jargon from your text or
mine. And all you have to do is paste your draft text in the box on their site,
press the button, and your text will be checked against thousands of buzzwords.
I’m just going to leave you with two more that he’s red-lined ‘preneur’.
Basically, people are putting any noun in front of ‘preneur’ in the hope of
making it sound cool. We’ve recently heard of cake preneur, IT preneur, even
burger preneur and buzzsaw’s rule is, if someone describes themselves as an
entrepreneur, they probably aren’t. And I think the last word can go to Hamish who
has singled out the word ‘awesome’. He says that not since the fall of the
Zimbabwean dollar has something devalued as much as the word awesome. So Hamish,
we at Tech Trends Pod salute you and your heroic work. Ultimately, you’ll
probably fail, mate. But your rearguard defence is “awesome”.
Okay, it’s time. And we’ll have to finish
by saying a big thank you to Alicia Asin of Libelium. Alicia, thank you.
Alicia Asin
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Jeremy Cowan
And my thanks, also, as always to George
Malim.
George Malim
It’s been a pleasure. Thank you.
Jeremy Cowan
Thank you too, ladies and gentlemen for
joining us wherever you are. The feedback to these podcasts has been fantastic.
And we hope you’ll subscribe to it wherever you found us today. Please rate us.
Give us a nice comment. It makes such a difference when people are looking for
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for news at IoT Now, VanillaPlus.com and TheEE.ai. And join us soon for the next Tech Trends
Podcast, looking at IoT and enterprise digital transformation. Bye for now.
About our guest:
Alicia Asin is the CEO of Spanish IoT company Libelium, which she co-founded in 2006. She received the European Women Innovator Award in 2019 and is part of the jury for the Princess Asturias Innovation Awards. Alicia was also recently named by Forbes Magazine as one of the top 100 most creative people in business. She graduated from the University of Zaragoza with a Master’s in Computer Engineering.
(Transcribed by https://otter.ai)
Source: https://www.iotglobalnetwork.com
The post Podcast 3: Cave Dwellers, Privacy, Huawei and Buzzsaws appeared first on IoT Now Transport.
